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Deedee



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:48 am    Post subject: Conflict of interest Reply with quote

What do you guys think of laser tattoo removal clinics in tattoo shops? I always felt that it undermined the art form, doesn't make sense to promote removal in the same place where they're being applied.
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evlink2006
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Look at the ones in shops as another tool to help artists out. I would love to have access to removal in the shop. It would open up a lot more things as far as cover ups go.
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Doubt
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's great if it's there to help with cover-ups. The more options there are the better. I also think it's better to have tattooers operating them, someone who understands what they're lightening or removing. From what I've heard you just get ripped off pricewise going to a clinic.
That being said I think people shouldn't get tattoos that they will evtl. want to remove.
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jfriesen
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tattooers have been trying tricks to lighten tattoos to make them easier for coverups since the first person disliked a tattoo.
I don't think that there would be anyone out there better for running a laser than a tattoo artist that knows what he's doing.
I've also got the impression from a lot of places that offer removal that they hate tattoos and think that everyone who has one is an idiot, and that it's their roll to save us from ourselves.
I would never go to someone with that attitude and you can bet that whether the person doing removal in a tattoo shop does tattoos or not, they aren't doing it because they think we're all scum and need to be saved from ourselves.
In fact I remember an article about a dermatologist from Vancouver that was doing removal who actually said that if people want a tattoo they should go to a scratcher because it would be easier for him to remove.
Now if you had something you didn't like, would you rather go to someone like that, or to someone who likes tattoos and is immersed in the culture?
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Murrayftw
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Karl Hedgepath at Jinx Proof has a laser. He'll take off their tatt and schedule an appointment to get a new tattoo a few weeks later by one of DC's finest. If the operation is legit so be it IMO.
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J_Corlis
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it is vitaly important to do research on the people who operate the lasers, just as one would research who's going to do your next tattoo. Considering we always talk about getting what you pay for, I am a little shocked that any one would throw out a comment about the price of something being done by a knowledgable professional. Maybe I am just lucky that in my city we have a very knowledgable professional who has been doing this kind of stuff for many years and doesn't have a negative opinion on whether people should get tattooed or not. He is there to do his job and does it very well. On the other hand there are a couple of tat-shops in the area who picked up a laser and started zapping people. They are signifigantly cheaper than the guy at the clinic. (well, sort of). I had one laser session done by a pro who knows what he's doing and was incredibly happy with the results. I do have to go back and get at least one more session , possibly 2. I have also seen a removal done by the tat-artist. Results were not as good. I also saw the tattoo before it was zapped, as i was asked to cover it. After 3 sessions, I swear her tattoo was darker than before they started. Plus the client mentioned an incredible amount of pain having it done. Mine hurt no more than a tattoo.
Just like with tattoo equipment, becasue someone has a laser, doesn't mean they know what tyhe are doing with it.
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jfriesen
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course people need to do research, no one said they didn't, but I think where you are is different than most places.
I have seen so many hack job tattoo removal attempts by people in clinics claiming to know what they are doing that it's sickening.
I wasn't trying to say that a tattooer automatically knows how to use a laser, but who really knows more about tattoos that a good tattooer?
Now take a good tattooer, give them the top of the line laser and train them how to use it properly and I think you're really on to something.

A lot of people in clinics around here don't seem to care if they leave people with a hideous scar because in their mind it's still better than a tattoo. Not that they ever actually manage to get rid of the tattoo anyway.

The people that hate tattoo shops but suffered through going to one to get the tattoo they now hate should go to spa's and clinics, but I'm glad there are other options for people like me who love everything about tattoos and tattoo shops but would like better tattoos where the teen aged mistakes live now.
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kevintat2
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do laser removal and I'm not trying to become a laser removal guy, I am a tattooer. Having the laser here at my shop has become a very useful tool to help people get better cover ups. Also the doctors that are doing removal are charging big money for the treatments. Like some of you have said this is something that should be done by tattooers, who know tattoos better?
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Natebot



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know how I feel about having removal available in shops, not for any reason other than it could downplay the fact that tattoos are meant to be permanent. I could easily see an indecisive client or naive young person halfheartedly decide on a design not because they've put alot of thought into the design or it's placement, but merely because if they decide they don't like it later on down the road they can easily come back in and get it removed. Want that neck tattoo as a first because the newest band on mtv has one? No problem, just get it removed when you're ready to enter the work force.

But if anybody should be doing it, I think the tattoo artists would be the logical choice.
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Corry
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Natebot wrote:
I don't know how I feel about having removal available in shops, not for any reason other than it could downplay the fact that tattoos are meant to be permanent. I could easily see an indecisive client or naive young person halfheartedly decide on a design not because they've put alot of thought into the design or it's placement, but merely because if they decide they don't like it later on down the road they can easily come back in and get it removed. Want that neck tattoo as a first because the newest band on mtv has one? No problem, just get it removed when you're ready to enter the work force.

But if anybody should be doing it, I think the tattoo artists would be the logical choice.


we see that now with cover ups, "well honey if you don't like it later you can always have it covered up"
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Anticrombi



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd personally love to be able to go into my local shop and have the option to lighten up some tattoos and then be able to get tattooed by the same artist. Especially if it's only a partial piece that needs lightening, the artist would know what parts need laser and what parts can simply be covered.

I think it'll become more common place in the future to have laser removal available in shops or just more available in general. In the last 5-7 years there's been a huge increase in not only tattoos but the extent of the coverage of said tattoos. Some artists have caught on and realize that with the increase came a lot of good tattoos but piles and piles of bad tattoos as well. Look back 7 years ago, how many shops, let alone tattoo artists, would even consider getting trained in laser removal?

Maybe I'm totally wrong here, but when I heard Guy Aitcheson had laser in his studio I thought that it was a very cool and new idea.
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J_Corlis
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jfriesen wrote:
...... but who really knows more about tattoos that a good tattooer?
Now take a good tattooer, give them the top of the line laser and train them how to use it properly and I think you're really on to something.


I totally agree with ya here and the key is "good tattooer" and "trained properly". Unfortunatley , in my area, the tattooers using lasers don't fall into either category. A hack is a hack no matter what tools he's using.
Laser removal can definitely be another useful tool in doing cover-ups, no doubt about it. That's why I am getting a piece removed. It's not big but it is dark and if it gets lightened up it a little more, it will become very easy to cover, especially considering how more space I have to work with. It is the only piece on my entire right leg and I plan on doing something that goes from ankle to hip, maybe up onto the ribs.
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kevintat2
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Natebot, takeing tattoos of with a laser isn't as easy as someone saying I don't like this tattoo anymore or I wasn't thinking when I get it done, take it off. Laser removal is pretty painfull and expensive and takes a bit if time to get the results that you want.
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Natebot



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kevintat2 wrote:
Natebot, takeing tattoos of with a laser isn't as easy as someone saying I don't like this tattoo anymore or I wasn't thinking when I get it done, take it off. Laser removal is pretty painfull and expensive and takes a bit if time to get the results that you want.


Oh, I know. That's kind of my point. It seems that laser removal is such a common suggestion as a precursor to a coverup these days that lots of people make stupid or halfhearted decisions on a permanent modification thinking that it's as easy as lasering the whole thing off once they grow tired of it. The same with coverups. I don't think that most people realize that there's only so much that can be done with both lasering and coverups. But as long as you've got people making bad decisions on tattoos and people giving bad tattoos there will always be a need for both coverups and laser removal. With that being said, it seems like the best logical choice for somebody to be removing tattoos would be tattoo artists. BUT I think the more people see that laser removal is available in the same place that offers tattoos, it runs the danger of sending the wrong message, that tattoos are just as easy to remove as they are to adhere. Kind of a Catch22.
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Deedee



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Natebot wrote:
BUT I think the more people see that laser removal is available in the same place that offers tattoos, it runs the danger of sending the wrong message, that tattoos are just as easy to remove as they are to adhere. Kind of a Catch22.


This is what I took issue with, I don't fundamentally have a problem with laser removal itself, but to have it done in the same place where tattoos are being applied seems counter productive. Not only does it send the wrong message, but it also undermines the permanent nature of the art form and that shop's ability to apply a tattoo.

Guy Aitchison is probably a good example of a shop that should have laser removal available as his wife has applied some of the worst, most arrogant tattoos I've ever seen.

Though I have to admit, considering tattoo artists in this thread are overwhelmingly in favor of having laser removal in tattoo shops, I am second guessing my opinion.
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debyarian
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would say that the majority of cosmetic surgeons and dermatologists that offer laser removal are extremely anti tattoo having dealt with only the negatives of tattooing.
The people that have changed their minds, their spouses, their lifestyle and gang affiliation.
Offering laser removal in a tattoo shop setting, in my opinion is productive--- not counter productive. And as stated above gives the client more options.

I didn't know that Guy offered laser removal.
He did my forearm early in his career --- and we just didn't have the same vision--- when I called him about covering it he said that he was not doing any cover ups that had not first been lasered.
I'm now glad that he didn't offer it and it wasn't an option( by him)
Because my husband Don covered the piece and it is one of my favorites.
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kevintat2
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Natebot, I get your point.

I guess we will have to see where the future takes us. It is pretty hard to get to do laser removal in my state (PA) so I don't think it will turn into every shop doing removal. It is also very expensive to buy a good laser.
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i_am_harry
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally I think that you should have some medical training if you start dealing with anything below the dermis. Full fucking stop. Destruction of the appearance of the skin through scarring is caused by getting into the fucking hypodermis. Lasers belong in clinics. So do piercers.
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jfriesen
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dude, the people running lasers in clinics are mostly completely untrained.
Someone with their name on the sign buys a laser and then they give a $10 an hour employee a crash course in "do it like this".

Just look at all the videos on youtube of clinics promoting laser removal. It's at least as scary as all the scratcher videos.
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Deedee



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is there no licensing or training required to operate a laser?
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kevintat2
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In some states you have to be trained and in some you don't and in some you can't do it unless you are a MD.
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jfriesen
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a quick story to illustrate how fucked up the whole clinic thing can be in BC.
I new a chick that was a dental hygiene assistant. Basically the bottom of the ladder in a dental office, next to the receptionist.
Anyway, since all you really need to do cosmetic surgery is a medical license and a dentist has one of those the dentist decided that she was going to start offering things like botox and collagen at her clinic and that the hygiene assistant was going to be the one to do it.
Girl said she wasn't comfortable with that since she had no training and wasn't at all interested. Dentist says something about how she'll show her how to do it and if she isn't willing to do it she should start looking for another job.

I only remembered this because I just saw an ad on the back of a bus for this dental office offering all this shit that has nothing to do with dentistry.

The same thing goes for lasers. Even if someone in the building is a doctor of some sort, it doesn't mean that they know anything about what they are doing with tattoos, or that it's even a doctor anywhere near the laser.
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i_am_harry
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jfriesen wrote:
Dude, the people running lasers in clinics are mostly completely untrained.
Someone with their name on the sign buys a laser and then they give a $10 an hour employee a crash course in "do it like this".

Just look at all the videos on youtube of clinics promoting laser removal. It's at least as scary as all the scratcher videos.

That doesn't mean they should be taken out of the clinics. Clearly whoever administers the laser treatment should have at least the same level of training as a rad tech.
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secondskin
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

we offer laser removal/reduction at our studio and it`s a great help for us with all the cover-up work we get. it just makes our job so much easier if someone is willing to fade the old bit first, and thats the long and the short of it. some of the stuff comeing in just cannot be sorted unless lasered.
we used to send folks to a clinic down the road but they didn`t understand that sometimes you only need to get rid of a bit and way over charged for just small stuff. other studios in our area send work to us for removal to help themselves with cover-ups.
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st10apex
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i'm a bit torn on this because its good for laser to be available to make our jobs easier, and to give the customer more options.
but...
We are paid to put them on and they are supposed to be permanent.
Its a bit like setting up a dentist in a sweet shop.
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