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you sheeple and your gun talk..
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artfisch



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:41 pm    Post subject: you sheeple and your gun talk.. Reply with quote

Sigmund Freud said, "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." ("General Introduction to Psychoanalysis," S. Freud)

The Dalai Lama: "If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." (May 15, 2001, The Seattle Times)

Admiral Yamamoto: "You cannot invade mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass." Advising Japan's military leaders of the futility of an invasion of the mainland United States because of the widespread availability of guns. It has been theorized that this was a major contributing factor in Japan's decision not to land on North America early in the war when they had vastly superior military strength. This delay gave our industrial infrastructure time to gear up for the conflict and was decisive in our later victory.

Adolf Hitler: "The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to possess arms. History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by so doing. Indeed, I would go so far as to say that the supply of arms to the underdogs is a sine qua non for the overthrow of any sovereignty. So let's not have any native militia or native police. German troops alone will bear the sole responsibility for the maintenance of law and order throughout the occupied Russian territories, and a system of military strong-points must be evolved to cover the entire occupied country." Adolf Hitler, dinner talk on April 11, 1942, quoted in Hitler's Table Talk 1941-44: His Private Conversations, Second Edition (1973), Pg. 425-426. Translated by Norman Cameron and R. H. Stevens.

Mao Tse Tung: "All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The communist party must command all the guns, that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party." (Problems of War and Strategy, Nov 6 1938, published in "Selected Works of Mao Zedong," 1965)

John F. Kennedy: "Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom."

Jill Fieldstein, CBS producer, Street Stories: Women and Guns: "As a card-carrying member of the liberal media, producing this piece was an eye opening experience. I have to admit that I saw guns as inherently evil, violence begets violence, and so on. I have learned, however, that in trained hands, just the presence of a gun can be a real "man stopper." I am sorry that women have had to resort to this, but wishing it wasn't so won't make it any safer out there. 29 April 1993.

Israeli Police Inspector General Shlomo Aharonisky: “There's no question that weapons in the hands of the public have prevented acts of terror or stopped them.”

Sen. Orrin G. Hatch: "In my studies as an attorney and as a United States Senator, I have constantly been amazed by the indifference or even hostility shown the Second Amendment by courts, legislatures, and commentators. James Madison would be startled to hear that his recognition of a right to keep and bear arms, which passed the House by a voice vote without objection and hardly a debate, has since been construed in but a single, and most ambiguous Supreme Court decision, whereas his proposals for freedom of religion, which he made reluctantly out of fear that they would be rejected or narrowed beyond use, and those for freedom of assembly, which passed only after a lengthy and bitter debate, are the subject of scores of detailed and favorable decisions. Thomas Jefferson, who kept a veritable armory of pistols, rifles and shotguns at Monticello, and advised his nephew to forsake other sports in favor of hunting, would be astounded to hear supposed civil libertarians claim firearm ownership should be restricted. Samuel Adams, a handgun owner who pressed for an amendment stating that the "Constitution shall never be construed . . . to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms," would be shocked to hear that his native state today imposes a year's sentence, without probation or parole, for carrying a firearm without a police permit."

Senator Orrin Hatch: "If gun laws in fact worked, the sponsors of this type of legislation should have no difficulty drawing upon long lists of examples of crime rates reduced by such legislation. That they cannot do so after a century and a half of trying--that they must sweep under the rug the southern attempts at gun control in the 1870-1910 period, the northeastern attempts in the 1920-1939 period, the attempts at both Federal and State levels in 1965-1976--establishes the repeated, complete and inevitable failure of gun laws to control serious crime." Senator Orrin Hatch, Chairman, Senate Judiciary Committee Subcommittee on the Constitution, 97th Cong., 2d Sess., The Right to Keep and Bear Arms, Committee Print I-IX, 1-23 (1982).

President Theodore Roosevelt: "The great body of our citizens shoot less as times goes on. We should encourage rifle practice among schoolboys, and indeed among all classes, as well as in the military services by every means in our power. Thus, and not otherwise, may we be able to assist in preserving peace in the world... The first step – in the direction of preparation to avert war if possible, and to be fit for war if it should come – is to teach men to shoot!" – President Theodore Roosevelt's last message to Congress.

Ted Nugent: "To my mind it is wholly irresponsible to go into the world incapable of preventing violence, injury, crime, and death. How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic."

Daniel Schmutter: "The tragic history of civilian disarmament cries a warning against any systematic attempts to render innocent citizens ill-equipped to defend themselves from tyrant terrorists, despots or oppressive majorities," Daniel Schmutter, lawyer for Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership

Larry Elder: "A woman who demands further gun control legislation is like a chicken who roots for Colonel Sanders."

Benjamin Franklin: Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Nov 11 1755, from the Pennsylvania Assembly's reply to the Governor of Pennsylvania.)

George Mason: "To disarm the people is the most effectual way to enslave them." (3 Elliot, Debates at 380)

Noah Webster: "Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe." (1787, Pamphlets on the Constitution of the US)

George Washington: "A free people ought to be armed." (Jan 14 1790, Boston Independent Chronicle.)

Patrick Henry: "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined...The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun."

***********************************************************

I have a Constitutional Amendment put in place by the FOUNDING FATHERS of MY COUNTRY to protect myself. If you don't buy the beliefs of people that built this country then you don't have to support the country. Don't come.. go to Canada or Mexico.

Look at Switzerland, EVERY able bodied male in that country from 18 to something like 45 HAS to have a Sig Sauer 5.56 NATO MACHINE GUN and a pistol and must be proficient. Look at their crime. Guns don't cause crimes any more than a tattoo would make him a criminal.

To the people that believe concealed carry is dumb and "escalates" crimes- you should read "More Guns, Less Crime." You will find out the it in fact lowers crime and that criminals fear armed civilians more than cops. and that guns are used more times (like 100 to 1) to avert crime then to commit crime.

There I just had to get all that out and figured I'd start my own thread instead of causing a disturbance in ol Poppers thread and get the toodles police after me.

Sheeple want the government. Sheeple might say they don't trust people to think for themselves. That we need the government to tell us what we can and can't do. How does communism work?

I bet Jews feel the need to bare arms.
I bet Blacks wouldn't have been slaves if from the beginning they had the right to bare arms.
Those times aren't fairy tale stories. People that lived through these times are still alive today. It is within the realm of our very lifespan. We aren't promised protection. We can protect ourselves.
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luckysquid
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a Canadian I was raised to belive something a little different......

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/128834/family_guy_right_to_bear_arms/
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fuzzyface



Joined: 23 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wow...great quotes!
whether these people are viewed as icons, leaders, heroes, lunatics or good old quacks, these are some really great quotes.

as for the aspect of guns, guns do not kill people. people kill people
the main reason, as i see it, is that life has lost its value for many
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fuzzyface



Joined: 23 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

luckysquid wrote:
As a Canadian I was raised to belive something a little different......
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/128834/family_guy_right_to_bear_arms/

hahahaha!
i have never seen this one before...way funny!
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BTMF



Joined: 24 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the book Send In The Waco Killers: Essays on the Freedom Movement, 1993-1998 the author, Vin Suprynowicz, raises some very interesting points regarding gun control. One of the most interesting to me was his assertion that the NRA has actually done a great deal of damage to our civil liberties, as they have supported the majority of the anti-gun legislature. He also makes some serious allegations against the ATF, IRS, and almost every other government body. It was a very eye opening read for me.

Prior to reading the book I had the typical guns=crime attitude. After reading the book I feel I have a greater understanding of the importance of armed citizens, even though I still choose not to be armed myself.
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zedkhov



Joined: 27 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i enjoy shooting as a stress reliever, though I dont own any guns or hunt or anything, sometimes just going to the shooting range and renting a magnum really gets all the stress out. Give it a try.
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BTMF



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found another interesting essay by Mr.Suprynowicz regarding this topic.

http://www.lizmichael.com/newplant.htm
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Rose



Joined: 23 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have this feeling that it's going to be me with a ruler and a rubber elastic band surrounded by that crew that killed Bonnie and Clyde.

Now, I want a gun.

Yup, it's that kind of thinking that makes one want a gun...because one feels as if they are under protected, and surrounded by those that can harm them-if they wish.

Still, it will be me possibly trying to force away harm with my can of degree shower fresh deodorant...or maybe some mosquito repellent with deet.

It may be how I was raised (with, occasionally, a gun to my head) but I don't like having guns in the house. I do think self defense is necessary when attacked. I must make peace with the fact that I don't have a gun to defend myself.

I keep hoping and working for a more peaceful world. I know it's probably naive, but I do. I think peace can be spread person to person and hopefully it can spread from me now and then.

...as a side note: I don't believe JFK was talking about owning guns even though he referenced the minute men. I think he was talking about general service to the country. Could be wrong about that, though.

Certainly people like Hitler and Mao didn't want the populace to have guns: tyrants fear an overthrow. They owned guns, though.
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artfisch



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

luckysquid wrote:
As a Canadian I was raised to belive something a little different......

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/128834/family_guy_right_to_bear_arms/


LuckySquid- ahahahahahahahaha. laughing

Rose- JFK makes reference to guns. Obviously his sentence encapsulates more then being prepared to take arms.
Just remember to incorporate a swift kick to the eyes, throat, and groin with that Deet spray.

blush
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Rose



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spray to the eyes. Kick to the groin. That's my plan.

...That and running like a little girl while calling 911.

(and as a side note; if Tazers were legal: I'd use one, as a defense, in a second.)
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BTMF



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A spray can and a lighter can be an effective flamethrower if need be.
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albatross



Joined: 29 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
There I just had to get all that out and figured I'd start my own thread instead of causing a disturbance in ol Poppers thread and get the toodles police after me.


i was wondering what you were talking about til i found that thread - heh, i missed it, i'm really with it aren't it? now i don't know whether to talk about guns in this thread or the other. i think i'm going to go with the other. in this thread i'll just say -

there are some cool quotes there. i am going to print this up and show it to a mate of mine (who i am going to mention in my reply in the other thread).

now i'm on my way to post in the other thread. god this is confusing
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BenMatthews
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 6:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Gun control" is being able to hit your target.
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mariposa



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Strickly speaking from my point of view as a mother of an 18 and 15 year old boy who have had their share of depression issues, I'm glad I don't have a gun in the house because I fear that they would have killed themselves or someone else by now. I had those feelings myself when I was a teenager, (as I'm sure a lot do) and if there had been a gun readily available I may have used it myself.

Hey, if you like guns, you like guns. Just keep in mind there's more than just protection issues to think about.
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BenMatthews
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's why you get a safe to put the guns in before the kids get old enough to hurt themselves. That, and teach you children about gun safety. Very few gun accidents happen in homes where the children were taught how to handle them safely.
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artfisch



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

um yeah.. hello? Mariposa- I have 5 children. I am well aware of gun safety. No guns are readily available to children in this house. Part of being a gun owner is acting like one. We actually have a room that is linked to our alarm system. We call it the "gun room". haha. When the door is opened the alarm beeps and says "gun room". You have to have a key to get in the deadbolt. Then when you are in the room all that is available to you is bullets. You'll need a different key for the gun safe. There is no way to break in to the safe. You could use a sawzall maybe. We are responsible parents. We love our children too. I said protect afterall.
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artfisch



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Several years back Dateline, or 20/20, one of those shows did a show where they took elementary aged children from both gun owning/gun educating families and those that did not own/discuss guns/anti-gun homes and put them into a play area under surveillance. They then placed a fake yet realistic looking & feeling gun in the room to watch the reactions of children.

Overwhelmingly the children from the "non-gun" homes proceeded to pick up the "gun" and point it at one another while shouting things like "BANG, BANG! YOU'RE DEAD! and other similar sayings. The children from the "gun homes" did not touch it, and went to find an adult to tell them about the gun.

Btw, the reporter for the news show was floored at the outcome. Funny how I'm not shocked.
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fuzzyface



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i can appreciate mariposa's post especially considering the mental health issue. in addition, some of the gun owners whom i have met probably should not have them, but that is my own opinion.
now without doubt, if a gun is in the home, safety must be paramount. however i am curious about whether an owner would have time to access their firearm (if need be) with it under lock and key, alarmed, etc.
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artfisch



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 3:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that not all people are meant to have guns. Even I am still a newbie gun owner and don't feel real comfortable yet.

As far as unlocking guns for protection- you just never know. I pray I never have those issues.

We seriously keep guns..well because Josh is a gunsmith and reloads ammo (it's his hobby- he spends all his free moments reading, watching videos, gun forums, at the range, in the "gun room") and made 4 1911s last year and it all spawned from his extreme conviction to keep his right to bare arms. Josh is a nerd and a nerd about it. It is a science to him.
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DougHardy
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BTMF wrote:
A spray can and a lighter can be an effective flamethrower if need be.


Really effective and easier to use: oven cleaning spray with a large-holed cap (either widen the whole with a pin or buy a 'fat cap' from a store that sells graffiti stuff). Nothing like a face full of lye melting one's eyeballs to get the attention of an attacker.
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mariposa



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="artfisch"]um yeah.. hello? Mariposa- I have 5 children. I am well aware of gun safety. No guns are readily available to children in this house. quote]

I believe you're an intelligent person. I never doubted that you have your guns locked up, but how old is your oldest child? If its below 13 or 14 then you're still okay. Once they become teenagers , all bets are off. I'm not saying all teenagers have mental issues, but with my experience (being one, having two now and a daughter about to be one) it's scary how their minds work, and you can feel so helpless sometimes. No matter how secure you think you are.

In no way am I trying to tell you to get rid of the guns. I'm just saying, mother to mother, be prepared for anything.
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luckysquid
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I grew up in a little hick town and had guns hanging on the wall and bullets in a unlocked cupboard only a arms lenght away. I had dozons of toy guns and if my old man ever saw me point one at anyone he whooped my ass. I learned fast not to point guns at people. By the time I was old enough to hold up a 22 i was shooting cans off of sticks at a hundred paces away. I could have easily shot someones eye out of their face from five blocks away by the time I was twelve. With that being said my brother and I have had some fights that left us both bloody. Yet the thought of actually shooting him never passed crossed my mind. I think it takes a special kind of person to honestly do something like that to anybody friend or foe.
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artfisch



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well I understand your point about teenagers... but you know where are you gonna draw the line? My oldest is almost 11 and we aren't going to magically change our views when he is 13. If he wants to committ suicide when he's a teenager he is going to have to get a belt and hang himself, jump off a bridge, jump in front of traffic, steal my ladybic and slit his wrist. I don't think you understand the amount of effort it takes to get to Josh's guns. And the one we have for "protection" is in a wall safe with fingerprint and number sequence access.... my kids are smart but they aren't professionals. It sucks to think about teenage suicide but there is a million ways to die that are easier then obtaining a gun in this house. Hopefully my children will never feel that way. But just in case, we'll practice that gun safety.

Doug- ovencleaner? you must think I'm domestic and shit. I want to play with fire fire fire. ;)
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F3nc3p0st
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Squirt-gun full of kerosene a cigarette lighter, and a threatening sneer.
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Rose



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah but oven cleaner is a great idea for me. One which I will, certainly, keep in mind.

I mentioned this in the other gun thread but in MA one can't get a gun licence if they have a history of clinical depression, or any type of mental illness. There are two primary reasons for this.

1) Someone clinically depressed might be prone to take their own life. (They can do this any number of ways, but the most popular ways to do this, without a gun, is take time and planning. In this amount of time the crisis can turn.)

2) Someone with another type of mental illness may not be capable of making a prudent decision with a gun.

I agree gun safety can help save lives.

I think your preventative measures will stop anyone from mishandling your weapons, Erica.

I wish my father didn't have guns. He often had them out, cleaning them on the living room table. He used them to intimidate me and my mother. This intimidation was quite effective in the sense that it gave me a feeling that I could die any day at his hands, and I have a life long fear of guns.

At one point an uncle took my fathers guns away, but later he gave them back.

He still has them, in a closet in his bedroom. (When I "met" him two years ago; I learned this.)

Some people really shouldn't have guns, it's true.
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