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Why all the unoriginality?
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Junket



Joined: 14 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 6:27 pm    Post subject: Why all the unoriginality? Reply with quote

Browsing the critique section I noticed that it seems like 90% of all tattoos are either a skull, dragon, flower, fish, chinese lettering or tribal work..

Is this just really the case or is it somehow blown out of proportion?

I realize these are staple pieces in tattooing but they all just seem played out and lame to me.

Not saying I can do better, or think up better.. but ...can't somebody????
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DoctorJohn
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking only for myself, of course, while I do understand what you are saying, I think the simple fact that we can only do the tattoos folks ask for which does not always relay what we can do or would prefer to do. Just thought that worth mentioning.
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AdamSky
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You pick 'em, we stick 'em.

Perhaps you should be addressing our clients and not the artists with your criticisms?
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J_Corlis
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, i can't remember anyone posting a chinese/japanese character for critique. ever. Very little tribal is posted, there are a wide variety of flowers and fish to choose from, and different styles of dragons. skulls are just really fuckin cool. lettering has been posted quite often as are portraits. it is true we don't post a lot of butterflies and stars, but then i can't remember the last time someone asked me to do a butterfly , stars are pretty staightforward .wizards, fairies and other fantasy stuff is just not really all that popular now, back in the 80's yeah, but not so much now. at least where i am.
as Adam said, you pick 'em , we stick'em . shows such as Miami Ink/LA Ink have helped make tattooing more popular, but at the same time they have contributed to helping the general public limit their choices to what they have seen on TV on the most recent episodes. it must be cool to get a __________ tattoo cause i just saw someone on TV get one and then they make up a similiar "reason/meaning' as the person on TV.
the unoriginality is not caused by the artists but by the TV brainwashed masses who don't think for themselves.
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Junket



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya I understand what you guys are saying ^

I wasn't trying to criticize artists at all. The shit you guys can do is crazy... absolutely crazy. I check out all the tattoos on here and most of them are just dope. This was just kinda directed towards anybody in the culture.. I was just curious if there is a reason for the consistent reoccuring themes..

I just think all the tattoos where the customer has a general idea of what he wants, like a unique, cool concept.. and the artist just adds his personal touch to it, are always the best ones..

Why do so many people just cop out
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zedkhov



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so, I have some skull tattoos so I'm a cop out?

I suppose your tattoos are all original eh? asian symbols and tribal?

fuck, people get tattoos for every reason under the sun, to generalize is ignorant.
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misfit_304
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1st off,skulls are fucking cool.enough said about that.2nd,I don't know about everybody else but my days are usually filled with letters,tribals,armbands,more letters,kanji,praying hands,more letters,crosses,etc.,etc. And then every once in a while you get to do something fun and cool and it makes it all worth it in the end.I know it's already been said but blame the lame ass,unoriginal,too afraid to be different general public for standard issue tattoos.
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Murrayftw
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

'cause they're fun?

*ahem* Some people new to furniture collecting gravitate towards this:




A pretty vast percentage of furniture dealers and connoisseurs however gravitate towards something more along the lines of this for their collections:





awwwwwww Hepplewhite.......

Both are good examples....But the simpler piece just offers more esthetically and conveys more understanding of craftsmanship then the gilded over the top french piece does. Its all about doing more with less to a lot of us tatty zappers..

"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"

Imagine just how shitty most today's contrived rock music would sound if you pushed a button and turned off the distortion to the guitars. Every flaw would be exposed...enhanced even.
With, 'the blues' there is nothing that can hide your fuck ups. Its just you and your beat up guitar.

A lot of traditional tattoos are done following the same principles. If its fucked its totally fucked and there's nothing you can do to hide it. That's why a bunch of us put it up so much.

Don't even ask about my Sudoku analogy...haha


But whatever, to each there own right?
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Junket



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

zedkhov wrote:
so, I have some skull tattoos so I'm a cop out?

I suppose your tattoos are all original eh? asian symbols and tribal?

fuck, people get tattoos for every reason under the sun, to generalize is ignorant.


Haha man, I didn't direct anything at you.

I was simply asking what the deal is..

I just don't get why so many people would walk into a parlor and be like, "Oh I want ________, the same tattoo that a billion other people have.."
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PDCastello



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^ It depends. Good Old-School flash is never boring even if it has been done zillion times. It has class. And contrary to the popular belief, they can have, and ususlly do, a meaning. Or a history would be more accurate, because meaning can differ from person to person.

And people don't allways think about deeper issues, they just live. So why would they think about tattoos that way?

If you want to change things because it pissed you, then start educating the masses.
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jlathe
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buddha tattoos are not all that original. If you wan to bash folks for getting roses/skulls/ dragons you should look in the mirror first.

Seriously, its all been done and certain designs are
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jlathe
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

^ TIMELESS
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PDCastello



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think this is the perfect topic to post a blog that Robert Ryan out of Eletric Tattoo NJ wrote a while back. Love it.


Quote:
Living through ghosts

This month it is down to the wire. Myself, Mike Schweigert, and Tom Yak had decided upon a location for a new tattoo shop last year. We chose a modest size spot in the downtown area of Bradley Beach. After a year of legal tangles and headaches we are almost ready for opening which leads me to the subject at large here, Hand Painted Tattoo Designs. One of the first ideas/promises we had made to each other is that the shop would be adorned with original hand painted flash. This is the way of the old school and a practice that is pretty much moot in this country. In our area alone, most shops have gone the route of color copied commercial tattoo designs or an even more homogenized approach of flat screen computers with websites of tattoo images to choose from. Im my opinion both routes are shrewd in the business department but also lack in showing the customer that the shop they have chosen are competent in drafting, composition, and style. The other drawback is that the images are completely drained of the intended power and light. This leads me to why I have chosen this subject to expand on. For The last 10 months I have been drafting sheets of classic tattoo designs. Many are shop standards of a time long forgotten yet still relevent today. It's far beyond the point of being nostalgic or retro. As I Study, Sketch, Scribe, Pen, & Watercolor paint these sheets an incredible feeling of history, lineage, and commitment have come over me. To see these designs in the way the masters had seen them. As well as to sit in a foxhole of a scared soilder waiting to meet his enemy or to swab the deck of a warship like many frustrated and lonely sailors have. To travel to exotic places and bring home these permenent mementos of rare tigers and dragons. To embelish ones self with indelible lodge symbols & lovers names or just to express simple emotions of Strength, Beauty, Love, Hate,and Faith. This has restored to me the meaning and the joy of tattooing. In a day when we are surrounded with high definition and multi layered special effects these designs and the ones that first brought them to fruitiion sing to me in song so true. As I render them in my own hand and offer them to all I can hear the chorus of many ghosts who have left a mark forever on thousands and also have nurtured a true American folk art. With respect and dignity may I do the same.

-Robert Ryan-

www.myspace.com/electrictattoonj
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dailyone



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Damn Murray! Respect for the clinic on fine furniture collecting. Between this post and the one comparing tattoos to fine wine your killing it with the quotes.

As for the discussion at hand:

All I've got in the way of tattoos is Japanese and old school traditional stuff because to me and to a lot of people in the tattoo community the shit is timeless. It evokes a certain feeling, I don't want to say nostalgia because as much as that is true it comes off to me as corny. The few of us who research our artists, make educated decisions on design and placement and generally don't fuck around when it comes time to put art on our bodies usually don't get the "style of the day" tattoo. We get the things that have been tried, tested and true. Now thats not to say my choices have strictly adhered to purely old time flash picked off the wall and traditional Japanese imagery out of some book. The artists I've chosen to tattoo me all have a firm grasp on the old proven techniques but can still bring something new to it.
For the other 90 percent of people getting tattooed, to me, it seems to be a cross between TV, fads and on a whim decision making that allows for such garbage designs to be placed on skin. Its the same on a whim decision making that has these people walking into "Mr. Scratcher's Needless Ink Tattoo Shop" and allowing the dude to permanently mark them for life with a terrible flawed design because "Mr. Scratcher" offered them a better deal on there tattoo. Not to mention, he could do it for them right now as opposed to waiting up to 6 months for someone of quality to design something amazing.
I blame a lot of this on the general public for having no education when it comes to tattoos. Because tattooing has been on the fringe of society (which personally I'm kind of okay with) and seems only to get brought up either:
A: In the negative
B: When some athlete or movie star makes it cool, or
C: When these reality TV types get a hold of it and twist it into something that the general public just eat up like 'shop drama' and 'deep meaningful pieces/sob stories". Instead of about how much time and effort these artists spend drawing designs over and over again until there just right before committing them to some strangers skin. (Example: The BS drama filled crap shoot that was "Inked" compared with the quickly canceled series focused on quality tattoo artists facing off against each other "Tattoo Wars")
I can't really hate on the general public for choosing such garbage tattoos but then again I can't really feel sorry them either. Its kinda like the Nigerian E-mail scam victims if your stupid enough to not look further into it then good riddance. Tattooing to a lot of people is a fad, like fake tans, neon shirts and Uggs. Something you don't have to really have any knowledge in to participate, just hop on the band wagon with the rest of the tribal rocking douchebags and chicks with tramp stamps. Tattooing is a culture and like any culture or way of life, if you just skim the surface, you'll never find out how deep it actually is.
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JasonLambert
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.tattoodles.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14814

In your face, junket!
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Jason-13
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 5:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You wrote this on another post:

Quote:
I want to get a Buddha there but I didn't know if thats dumb to do.


Do you think that you are original wanting a Buddha tattoo. Even if you get a Buddha you would not be wise to ask your artist to make it his own. If you draw or tattoo the image of Buddha any different then the way his image has been portrayed over the years it would be wrong.

Good tattooers would not replicate an image to be something it is not. We do not draw roses to look like a shoe. If a customer comes in and ask for a rose that is what they get. If a customer comes in and ask for a Buddha we do not draw horns on him and color him in tie dye just to be original. Tattoos have to translate well to the skin and be able to look good for the next 50-60 years.

Also...did you look through all 156 pages of tattoos that were posted on this site alone? Take the time to do so before you ask a question and you may answer it yourself.

AND>>>> Do not judge the whole industry on this one website...look around and do your homework.
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Junket



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jason-13 wrote:
You wrote this on another post:

Quote:
I want to get a Buddha there but I didn't know if thats dumb to do.


Do you think that you are original wanting a Buddha tattoo. Even if you get a Buddha you would not be wise to ask your artist to make it his own. If you draw or tattoo the image of Buddha any different then the way his image has been portrayed over the years it would be wrong.

Good tattooers would not replicate an image to be something it is not. We do not draw roses to look like a shoe. If a customer comes in and ask for a rose that is what they get. If a customer comes in and ask for a Buddha we do not draw horns on him and color him in tie dye just to be original. Tattoos have to translate well to the skin and be able to look good for the next 50-60 years.

Also...did you look through all 156 pages of tattoos that were posted on this site alone? Take the time to do so before you ask a question and you may answer it yourself.

AND>>>> Do not judge the whole industry on this one website...look around and do your homework.


the buddha I plan on gettin is original in the sense of what he is holdin and doing, it directly relates to myself.. which makes alot more sense then just some random image off the web.

I looked through over 70 pages of the tattoos on here and dozens more on other sites, which is what made me make a thread like this. Again, I'm not judging anyone or trying to "put-down" anyones ideas. I thought the more tattoos I checked out the more I would see new pieces, but it was the opposite of that. Reiterating here, I was just trying to learn the priniciples behind it all.

Going on to the principles, why wouldn't an artist draw a rose into a shoe?? I thought it was an artists job to adapt, create, innovate, design, etc..

I'm straight up asking, I don't really understand that part of your post man

oh and

"If you draw or tattoo the image of Buddha any different then the way his image has been portrayed over the years it would be wrong."

The image itself has been portrayed in many different ways already though??? fat buddha, skinny, multiple hands, big ears.. there is already numerous variations?
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J_Corlis
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the term "Buddha" means "enlightened one" or "awakened one". there are many different buddhas. typically most people think of the smiling chubby one as " the buddha" but that is just one of many. I live in niagara falls ontario, we have a buddhist temple here. it is called "the Temple of 10 Thousand buddhas", which is where my last two avatar pics are from. i wandered onto the temple property(they open the grounds occaissionally for the general public to sightsee) and took a lot of pics, none of which were inside as there are many signs posted asking not to photograph/video the inside of the temples or the ceremonies being held. Each buddha has it's own meaning and represents a portion of the belief based on country of origin /time period etc. To just take an image of a buddha and start plopping your own "stuff" into their hands is disrespectful and wrong.
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PDCastello



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is more good info

http://www.onmarkproductions.com/html/shaka.shtml
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Jason-13
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is what happens when idiot artist try to draw there own art with no reference. If you do not base your tattoo off a specific painting that was done properly or if you start changing it and adding things you get this:



If you do your homework and do it the right way it looks more like this one:

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russmo
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the first one
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RobJobe
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you would....
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Jason-13
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now about the rose. If you want to get a rose tattoo then a tattooer needs to draw a rose. Anything else would not be a rose...correct? If you want a rose I'm not going to draw a fucking shoe...... get it?

If you want me to tattoo a circle on you then I simply draw a circle. If I change the circle.....it's not a circle anymore...it's very simple.

I see so many tattoo artist try to draw their own version of praying hands...WHY? You can't change the basic structure of a hand just to make it a custom tattoo. If you want to make it custom then add a rosary but the rosary has to be drawn based on the basic structure of a rosary.

Are you looking for someone to just wing it on your arm? Do you want a replica of Picaso or Vango? This shit is for life bro. You see the same images so much in tattooing because it's classic and it works. Why are wheel round......cuz it works bro. Why the fuck would you change the shape of a wheel? You wouldn't. Right?
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J_Corlis
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

and if you want something that is more on the surealistic side it still needs to be based on realistic properties. check out Salvador Dali , his stuff is crazy, but everything was based on something real and then changed/distorted/ manipulated etc but it was still referenced. look at his melting clocks they still look like clocks and not something else
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Junket



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 1:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jason-13 wrote:
Now about the rose. If you want to get a rose tattoo then a tattooer needs to draw a rose. Anything else would not be a rose...correct? If you want a rose I'm not going to draw a fucking shoe...... get it?

If you want me to tattoo a circle on you then I simply draw a circle. If I change the circle.....it's not a circle anymore...it's very simple.

I see so many tattoo artist try to draw their own version of praying hands...WHY? You can't change the basic structure of a hand just to make it a custom tattoo. If you want to make it custom then add a rosary but the rosary has to be drawn based on the basic structure of a rosary.

Are you looking for someone to just wing it on your arm? Do you want a replica of Picaso or Vango? This shit is for life bro. You see the same images so much in tattooing because it's classic and it works. Why are wheel round......cuz it works bro. Why the fuck would you change the shape of a wheel? You wouldn't. Right?


the wheel is shaped round because its the only thing that works... that doesn't apply to tattoos because I know not only one kind of tattoo "works"

other than that I understand what you are trying to say... just still not the whole rose/shoe thing. if somebody asked for that to be done, an artist wouldn't just make it happen?
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